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Dune + Thai Reading Skills

So in a recent (2009!) post I posted a brief excerpt from a book I’m reading at the moment.  I was hoping somebody had read the book or seen the movie and remembered one of the more famous lines, but perhaps not.

Getting the book was a bit of a hassle.  Not for me, but for my student, Boo, who is often roped into being my speaker for the Language Space vids.  You can hear about some of the adventure in this vid.  As it turns out, there were only 2 sets (sold as a trilogy) left in Thailand.  Now there is only 1.

Anyways, I often look through the wikis of stuff that I like or used to like so I thought I’d break down the really short wiki on Dune in Thai because there is some great SRS stuff inside if you ever end up digging into this kind of stuff.

Remember, it is only hard because you have no experience doing it.  You can study for 10 years and it will still be hard.  The only way it will get easier is if you actually start doing it.  I’m not just referring to language here.  You only suck at something because you haven’t put in enough time yet.   Don’t let the nonsense that comes out of other people’s mouths affect how you think about yourself and what you are (in)capable of.  Everything gets easier with practice.  Don’t wait for the right time or the right setup.  Just get started now.  Figure out how to make it better along the way.  Just do something and stop whining.   You certainly can’t get worse by doing it.

I expect it to take me at least a year to finish the Dune trilogy in Thai.  Thai is pretty low-priority for me these days, but I keep plugging away to keep the new words coming in.  I’ll sit down 2-4 times a week and set a min time limit.  Usually 15 minutes.  Then I just read.  There are always words I don’t know, but I know whats going on in the story.  It tends to be the more artsy descriptive language that I end up guessing with.  I allow myself to write down 1-2 words/page that I may want to look up later, but only if a word really jumps out at me.    After 15 min is up, if I feel bored, tired or whatever I stop then and move on to something else.  If I am into what is going on in the story and want to keep going, I give myself another 15 min.  Its rare that I get past 30 min in one sitting.  The Thai version is nearly 700 pages and I think I’m in the 70s at the moment.   The thing that keeps me going is that I want to read the story and my Thai reading ability is passable enough that I can do this.  But I also know that by the time I am halfway through the book, I will be used to the style of writing, have a better idea what a lot of those funny descriptive words mean making the whole process worth it.  It will get easier and more fun.  The first book will take the longest for sure.

*I eventually finished all 3 books from the first 3 Dune books by Frank Herbert (Thai translation) and it took just a few months of trying to read at least 15min/day.  It was slow going at first, but once I got used to the style and some of the new Thai vocabulary, it got easier (but still not easy!).

Want to learn how to read and speak Thai?  Check out my full program here.

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ดูน_(นวนิยาย)

ดูน (อังกฤษDune) เป็นนิยายวิทยาศาสตร์โดยแฟรงค์ เฮอร์เบิร์ต ตีพิมพ์ครั้งแรกเมื่อ ค.ศ. 1965 จำหน่ายได้มากกว่า 12 ล้านเล่มทั่วโลก [1] ได้รับรางวัลเนบิวลาประจำปี ค.ศ. 1965

ดูนมีเนื้อหาเกี่ยวกับโลกอนาคต กล่าวถึงการดำรงอยู่ของมนุษย์ วิวัฒนาการ สังคมวิทยา นิเวศน์วิทยา โดยอ้างอิงถึงเรื่องศาสนา การเมือง และอำนาจ ได้รับการยกย่องให้เป็นหนึ่งในสองวรรณกรรมวิทยาศาสตร์ที่ดีที่สุดในโลก เทียบเท่ากับ เดอะลอร์ดออฟเดอะริงส์ ของเจ. อาร์. อาร์. โทลคีน [2] (จากการสำรวจเมื่อปี 1975)

นิยายวิทยาศาสตร์ Sci-Fi

ตีพิมพ์ครั้งแรกเมื่อ ค.ศ. 1965 – first printed in 1965

จำหน่ายได้มากกว่า 12 ล้านเล่ม sold more than 12 million copies

ทั่วโลก worldwide

ได้รับรางวัลเนบิวลาประจำปี ค.ศ. 1965 –  received the annual Nebula award in 1965

เนื้อหา –  content

เกี่ยวกับ – about; concerning

โลกอนาคต – a future  world

กล่าวถึง – telling of; talking about

การดำรงอยู่ของ – the exsistence of..

มนุษย์ – human

วิวัฒนาการ – evolution

สังคมวิทยา – sociology

นิเวศน์วิทยา – ecology

ศาสนา – religion

การเมือง – politics

อำนาจ – power

ได้รับการยกย่อง – received praise..

หนึ่งในสอง – 1 of 2

วรรณกรรมวิทยาศาสตร์ – sci-fi

ที่ดีที่สุดในโลก – best in the world

เทียบเท่ากับ – compared with

Ramblings and/or Advice

I’m always frustrated about lack of resources,  access to native speakers and other obstacles that I meet while studying all of these languages.  This is why I am making these videos.  I can’t wait around for somebody else to do it.

The other day during a Burmese filming session, a person mentioned that they had told a friend about Language Space (a group I created as a listening exercise for languages which later turned into me filming talks in different languages) and they were planning on going until someone else told them something like “Don’t bother, you won’t understand anything because you are still a beginner.”    This is a huge problem for many people. People have a tendency to hear silliness like that and then internalize it.   Because these ideas have been internalized, these same people are likely to be defensive about it so I’ve learned that there isn’t any point in arguing with them, however I like to at least ask them to elaborate on where they got the idea, if they actually have any personal experience with it and generally just try and get them to think a bit more about it.  Its better if they discover the silliness on their own.

Why is it that people think that they need to study up to a certain level before they do things in a language?  The only way to be able to read a newspaper, watch movies or read books in another language is to read the newspapaer, watch movies and read books in that language!

The only way to get better at listening, is to listen.  Sure it helps loads of the material is at least partially comprehensible and I’d always recommend trying to find material that you are already interested in, but what it comes down to is that you need to hear thousands of hours of the language before you can begin to achieve a real level of competence so starting immediately isn’t a bad idea.  As you get better it will be easier to find material that is suitable (enjoyable!) for you.  Don’t just go study for 2 or 10 years and complain that you studied for x years and still suck – go and do something about it!

Stop measuring learning in terms of years.   The years you spend thinking about studying something are irrelevant.  What matters is the hours you put into it and how you spend that time.  Keep a daily log for a month of all time spent studying/listening/reading and at the end of the month it will become very clear why you aren’t getting any better.

Tone Up

Being able to say the correct tone is great and all, but ultimately if you want to speak ชัด-ly, it all comes down to rhythm.  Reading stuff out loud helps.  Having a native speaker correct you is good also.  If this isn’t convienent, then just having the original audio for a body of text is fine as well.   Start easy.  Look for interesting content.   Listen to it a lot.  If you need help finding interesting content, just ask.  

Here are some easy common examples:  

ไป ไหน มา      common-rising-common

ว่า จะ ใด         falling-low-common

ไม่ ว่าง             f – f

ไ ม่ ได้ ไป     f – f- c

วัน นี้  เหรอ   c-high-r

Learning to Read – Again

Reading in a new language can seem rather daunting, even painful at times. Some people preach that there are ways around this, but after a year and a half of trying to become fluent in Japanese by reading stuff that would be considered difficult, I haven’t found it yet. The truth is that I don’t read much these days. Getting new English books here always seems to be too much of a hassle. And here I’ve been trying to read whatever Japanese books I could get my hands on. Manga, language learning theories, fiction, old literature, etc. What I’ve discovered is that it was a mistake to read manga or old literature or whatever solely because it was manga (or something) and it was in Japanese. I just wasn’t getting into it. So, what the hell can I read?

Because of the enormous amount of time and exposure required, the last thing we want to spend as little time as possible being bored, frustrated, angry or what not.

I started by asking myself a very important question – “What did I used to read back in the day?”
Lots of Stephen King. So, I went to amazon.jp and ja.wikipedia.org and started to read about Stephen King books that I’ve read in the past and know pretty well. Reviews, summaries, character descriptions, etc. And its been great. Even though every single page has plenty of words that I don’t know, I know enough that can skip as many of those words as I want. I mine everything for sentences of things that I want to see again in my SRS. But the two most important things going on here are that I’m enjoying reading, and I am READING. I only read as long as it stays interesting. If I start spacing out or getting bored or frustrated…I do something else, or go look for something else to read. I can always come back to the current one if I feel like it.

So anyways, I’ve devoured a lot of Stephen King stuff in the past few days and tonight I’m poking around summaries of Star Wars and Robocop. I also really wanna get my hands on some of the Jp translations of SK’s books.

Anyways, how does this help you? Well, I’d say Thai is more limited than Japanese as far as I know in regards to translations from English when it comes to books. However, there are loads of movies and tv series to work with. So as I’m writing this, Lost is on tv so I figured that was good enough to start with. If you watch that, or Prison Break, Heroes or what not, we might have some material to work with.

So again, how do we go about reading this stuff when we still suck? And don’t forget we are mining SRS material as we go. Let’s do some a couple quick lines…

First sentence from the Prison Break Wiki
Prison Break เป็นซีรีส์แอ็กชัน ดราม่า ทางโทรทัศน์ ออกอากาศครั้งแรกทางช่องฟ็อกซ์
This one is full of SRS goodness. What have we got?

Prison Break เป็นซีรีส์  – PB is a series

Prison Break เป็นซีรีส์แอ็กชัน PB is an action series

Prison Break เป็นซีรีส์ดราม่า PB is a drama series

Prison Break เป็นซีรีส์ ทางโทรทัศน์  PB is a tv series

PB เป็นซีรีส์ออกอากาศครั้งแรกทางช่องฟ็อกซ์ – PB is a tv series that was first broadcast on/by Fox.  

Get the idea yet?  Let’s look at the the first line from the Lost Wiki.  A bit longer you may notice.  

Lost เป็นดราม่าซีรีส์ที่อเมริกา ที่มีเนื้อหากล่าวถึงผู้รอดชีวิตจากอุบัติเหตุเครื่องบินตก บนเกาะลึกลับ 

See anything from the Prison Break sentence in this one?

Lost เป็นดราม่าซีรีส์ – Lost is a drama series

Lost เป็นดราม่าซีรีส์ที่อเมริกา – Lost is a drama series in America

Lost เป็นซีรีส์ ที่มีผู้รอดชีวิตจากอุบัติเหตุเครื่องบินตก = Lost is a series about survivors of a plane crash

Lost เป็นซีรีส์ ที่มีผู้รอด เครื่องบินตก บนเกาะ – Lost is a series of plane crash survivors on an island

บนเกาะลึกลับ – on a mysterious island 

Tear apart the sentence until its only got 1 thing it in you don’t know.  And if you are still trying to practice reading at a basic level then keep the phrases really short, but don’t waste time with single words.  Words out of context are forgotten too easily.   There isn’t anything wrong with having a few of the same sentence with only one word changed.

Now, go try and skim through a few of those.  Set goals.  Mine 3-5 flashcards/day.  You don’t need to SRS everything and there isn’t much point to try to do too much at once anyways.  Just SRS stuff that you see a lot of and want to remember or anything that jumps out at you. Its always ok to delete sentences later.  And when you get up into the thousands – you will, often.

Just Because

Thai has a whole mess of particles which are best learned in context as they are a bit difficult to translate and by having them explained to us we tend to overthink them.  So I’d be careful using these until you see how others do it.

ไง – this word thrown on the end of a phrase can be used to imply that something is obvious already.   Think about the following:

Why didn’t you go?       ทำไมถึงไม่ได้ไป

::shrugs:: Didn’t feel like it.   ไม่อยากไปไง

It doesn’t need to mean ‘because,’ but it often does.  It can also come across as being a bit cheeky depending on the situation and how you say it.

Q: How can you eat that stuff?

A: ชอบไง – Well, um, I like it.